This is the type of discussion I yearned to have about Obamacare

Yesterday I posted the article “Obamacare revisited: Terrific year, surging gains – You Covered?” on the Coffee Party USA Facebook page. I was touched by a decidedly conservative poster who was in fact harmed by Obamacare.

Granted, Obamacare has made healthcare in our country in the aggregate orders of magnitude better, for those that are hurt it does create hardships. I am sure if Republicans in Congress decided to work in the interest of poor and middle class Americans to fix issues like those that have materially hurt many Americans, the problem would be fixed.

The problem however is twofold. Politicians that are wards of the Plutocracy have convinced many Americans that the fixes needed to Obamacare can only be accomplished with a repeal and redo. Unfortunately history is probative. President Obama did what no other President and Congress was able to accomplish for over a century. A repeal would guarantee the same result.

A misinformed electorate gives the wards of the Plutocracy full reign. That makes real change for the middle class difficult as they continue to vote against their own interest based on provable misinformation.

I enjoyed the tone of the dialogue that occurred below. There is ideological rigidity however the tone and respect provided an atmosphere where solutions can emanate. Why don’t you continue the conversation in that tone. Two positions have been sort of laid out. (Note: It is a Facebook thread so expect a higher amount of grammar failures.)

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Paul Tellini My costs have risen A LOT! Let me guess, I’m lying. Actually no I’m not laying and I want the government to BACK OFF! Everyone they puts their hands on goes to crap. Leave it to the people not the government. ACA is a train wreck. No I didn’t get that from FoxNews nor am I racist. I think for myself.

Teri Hawkey Silvey Please give us more details. Are you in a medicaid expansion state? Do you buy your insurance from an exchange or get it from your employer? If you buy from an exchange, shop around more. If you get it from your employer, it’s on them and the insurance company, not the ACA. You are indeed a racist and probably watch Faux all day.
Like · 2 · 19 hours ago

Paul Tellini Teri I shopped around A LOT. I found the best deal I could and it was with my employer. My employer is actually absorbing a lot of the cost since the insurance company is now being forced to cover ALL CASES no matter how expensive thanks to ACA.
Teri maybe you should stop blaming skin color which by the way is being racist. Oh and I don’t watch much mainstream media like you probably do. I don’t allow myself to be brainwashed.
Lisa before ACA entire family was covered for about $300 per month and now covered for about $700 per month and my deductible has increased. I live in GA but frankly that should not even be an issue. It’s all about “government please help us”. If the government cut spending where it actually needs to be cut and let the insurance companies function in free market while Medicare and Medicaid covered the elderly, handicapped and uncover-able we would be in better shape.

Unfortunately my plans and ideas tend to go against the liberal agenda.

Lisa Pierce-Goldstein Paul, I’m curious to know what type of plan you had and what it covered vs. the plan you have now. I appreciate you coming back on the thread and answering my questions. You do continue to undermine your credibility by making blanket statements such as (liberal agenda, ACA disaster, what can the government give me etc.) I don’t quite believe you are looking at all of this without an agenda.

Paul Tellini Lisa I have seen giving you details besides the “blanket statements”. Unfortunately liberals don’t like them but that’s life. I have always gotten good plans but not the cream of the crop. Now I can’t afford what used to be affordable. I don’t have all the plan details with me right now but when I was shopping I was closely looking at all the details. It was really frustrating to see how much more I had to say. I am paying more now for a plan that gives me higher co-pays and deductibles. The ACA supporters says it’s the insurance companies that are to blame but it’s not. It’s the regulations aka ACA that increase their cost of operations. Like a typical business they are trying to maintain the bottom line so I certainly don’t blame them for this.

Ken I am assuming you are being sarcastic about me lying. I have no reason to lie.

Egberto Willies Paul Tellini it is not a Liberal/Conservative issue and it is just as wrong for Conservatives to give a blanket statement about Liberals as it is Liberals about Conservatives. It gets us nowhere. The Plutocracy wants us to have that argument so that we can be at each other’s throat.

Here is the deal, Obamacare has been a godsend for most. It has been what is seen like a disaster for situations like yours. The definition of insurance is we all pay some so that if we are unlucky, we do not get bankrupted by medical care which is what has happened pre-Obamacare for a large percentage who got sick. This occurred whether you had insurance or not.

Liberals like me wanted a single payer system. In other words like Medicaid (which unlike what is said by the misinformation, really works) is paid out of the general tax funds (indirectly Medicaid tax etc. — This while maintaining private doctors and hospitals. At a minimum I wanted a public option that would have been an experiment to show the mathematical fact that insurance companies are just skimming profits for nor real service (Doctors, hospitals, and drug companies are the providers of service, not the insurance companies).

This law, Obamacare, took the idea of the Conservative Heritage Foundation which was successfully implemented in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney. Remember the states being the laboratory to test new ideas? It was successful in Massachusetts though more expensive than needed. Why? Because ideology required that we keep private insurance in the system. In the past insurance companies took about 33% of premiums for operations leaving only 67 cents on the dollar for healthcare. With Obamacare they were forced to spend at least 80% on healthcare, reducing their profits Remember, they just pay a bill. Any other function they have is to mitigate risk to maximize profits for again simply paying a bill.

The reason the Plutocracy is so adamant in attacking Obamacare is because of a few items in the bill and you covered it. Everyone has to be covered whether preexisting conditions or not. That is the only humane thing to do. Healthcare reform without that is immoral.

Now getting to your specific case. You should be really upset at those who want to maintain a system with insurance companies and exclusion of preexisting conditions. Here is why. If we had a single payer system, and taxes indexed to income, the very wealthy would be paying much more taxes. That is a good thing. We as a country provided the wherewithal where their success could blossom. The average American fight the wars, build the infrastructure, paid taxes to design the Internet and other drugs in Universities. They used our capitalist structure to profit from the public domain. Do not believe that most technologies happened in the great laboratories of private industry. There is a huge public component because by definition, private companies are risk averse.

In that scenario those whose marginal increase in taxes would have no impact on their lifestyle would pay more. You would pay less, not because you are mooching on the rich, but because you are part of building the society that allowed the rich the environment to be rich.

God forbid if you get an illness you did not expect to get. Should your economic life be over then? Hell no. This bill ensures that won’t be.

We need to fix the bill. We must not allow ourselves to be played by going at each other’s throats. Obamacare cost you more. Granted for you that is horrendous. That is a bad thing. You should be joining me and others to do something about those who get caught in your situation. Do remember, pre- Obamacare others had it worse. We want ALL Americans to have it better. We want you to be able to save and purchase that house you spoke about. The country as a whole is rich enough because we ALL made it so even though only those at the top have created policies that give them most of the spoils.

Let us stop fighting for the crumbs and demand a system that works for us all.

Paul Tellini Egberto Willies  I agree with your first statement. Over all conservatives and liberals want whats best for everyone but have different ways to approach it. While we are fighting the government does what it wants because we are being blind by the conflict.

There are some good things about Obamacare but unfortunately it is overall a train wreck. It needs to be completely redesigned. A friend of mine who previously did not have health care does have it now while I am paying A LOT for it.

The 2nd and 3rd paragraph point to an under lying issue which is currency. We need to get rid of corporatism (not capitalism) and the dollar needs to be managed better. The government is being irresponsible spending. If we could cut unnecessary spending we would have more to work with. In the meantime w are borrowing, getting further into debt and devaluing the dollar.

We have talked about this and you have disagreed with that but I know it’ true. Its common sense. We have even had our credit rating drop three times. And no it’s not Bush’s fault. We are dealing with issues that are a direct result of Obama’s decision making.

I am well aware that “Romneycare” was implemented in MA. I used to live there. Keep in mind though that it was implemented on the state level and not the federal level. ACA supporters don’t like it when I said that. But that is a fairly big difference. Also please keep in mind I am not against people having health insurance. That is a traditional nonsensical attack by ACA supporters.

I would like for everyone to be covered but not this way. If I had my way Medicare and Medicaid would cover those that insurance companies would not cover. In the meantime the insurance companies can compete for customers in the free market. If we resolved the currency issues we would have less issues with the money. That way everyone would be covered. Both of us want the same thing but different approaches. We are not wealthy enough for ACA.

Companies don’t include preexisting conditions because they tend to be expensive. Granted when ACA started their profit margin lowered but they still had to charge more to cover those. Imagine if they didn’t drop their margin. The poor get subsidized while those that supposedly can afford it don’t get subsidized. I say supposedly because it is expensive. You talk about morality and while I am not against someone getting medical treatment I also promote personal responsibility.

I got a kick out of your scenario. I don’t believe in forced redistribution of wealth. I believe a person should be able to do whatever they want with their money. Who are we to make them do something with it? If we get rid of corporatism and the government got responsible with currency then your scenario would not be an issue. While the socialist demonizes the rich person, that person has employees that while we may not entirely agree with what the person does still provides jobs.

As far as getting sick is concerned I have been there. I have been irresponsible and not had insurance. There was a time when I was on government assistance and I did not look at it as an enabler rather looked at it as something to help me out in case I needed it until I got on my feet. Now that I am making more money I expected to be able to pay for my own insurance. Oh I can and it’s expensive. It is far more expensive than if I didn’t have it. Oh but wait if I don’t have it I have to pay a penalty in my taxes. Then comes the ACA supporter saying it’s not a penalty. Well if I have to pay extra in my taxes for not having health insurance guess what? It’s a penalty. As for what I think we should do refer to my previous statement about what I would do.

I would say fix the bill but it needs an overhaul. The ACA supporters are thrilled that everyone has insurance. Everyone else is upset because of the cost, coverage and loss of coverage. I’d like to join you but we do not have a common goal. I went ACA replaced but the replacement would never fly with the current government.

I am very well aware of what how people were doing before Obamacare. My friend was one of them. That is the good part of Obamacare. About the only good part that I am aware of actually. It is screwing over the rest of us. This country is not as rich as you make it out to be. If I borrow one billion dollars am I rich?

Egberto Willies Paul Tellini within your response there is a lot of ideology that I am too sleepy to address now ::) Suffice it to say that most of the problems in the ACA are concessions made in order to keep insurance companies in the game. Once we break away from strict ideology we start to see capitalism as a tool. There are places for it. Health insurance is not one of them. Thanks for engaging. We will continue.