I got irate when I saw a message from a Facebook friend. We should not let fallacies fester especially when calling Sanders & Warren & Democrats communists.
A post appeared in my thread that had the following lede.
I apologize for calling the Democrats socialists. They are not. They are full-fledged communists.
It was to the WSJ story “Opinion: Warren’s Assault on Retiree Wealth.” The Plutocracy needs to scare people early to make it as sticky as possible. Ironically, the story is behind a paywall but it still allows you to read it. I wonder why?
So what is the article’s big complaint?
Under this new Warren charter, companies currently dedicated to their shareholders’ interest would be reordered to serve the interests of numerous new “stakeholders,” including “the workforce,” “the community,” “customers,” “the local and global environment” and “community and societal factors.” Eliminating corporations’ duty to serve investors exclusively and forcing them to serve political interests would represent the greatest government taking in American history.
I find it ironic that moral people cannot understand that capitalism, without those tenets, is at best, indentured servitude and at worst slavery. Stakeholders should have a stake, not just the passive ones, the ones not doing any work while workers could die and community negatively affected by bad deeds of the entities enriching the shareholder. The selfishness of concern for capital and not for humanity befuddles the mind.
So I commented.
I wish people used to think more deeply as opposed to allowing articles like this to misinform. Come on people, no one wants to hurt people. But our system currently hurts most. Nothing Elizabeth Warren or Sanders is talking about will hurt anyone. It will reduce the undeserved growth of those who hoard or steal capital Most people who are scared are actually the deserved beneficiaries of her policies. These articles will be seeded throughout the internet by the Plutocracy to scare you. They all realize their Democratic puppet, Biden won’t make it.
The author of the lede to the post responded.
Scott Cone: Egberto Willies please explain how people steal or horde[sic] capital. Please also explain where you think capital comes from? Do you think there’s a existing pot of money called “capital” somewhere that greedy individuals steel from and keep from others?
People who have capital don’t steal it or horde it. They get it by creating things, working and then investing in new tools to create more capital. Along the way, they hire others to help them increase more.
Where do you get the idea people steal and horde? That’s a direct assertion of communist ideology. Are you a communist?
Another person addressed me on the post as well.
Victor Howard: Egberto Willies really, Sanders, Warren, and the whole communist clan are talking about trickle up poverty. The government does not create. It uses. People identify opportunities, invest time and capital, and create companies, thereby creating additional jobs and wealth for themselves and others. Stockholders gain wealth through the growth in the companies they own in their stock portfolios. The Dems want to blame wealth, they should really be accusing laziness.
Because I was on a Right-Wing thread and I am sure that as a very Progressive Democrat and POC there are certain preconceived misconceptions, I prefaced my answer with a personalization I would not have otherwise given. I want nothing from the government and in Mitt Romney’s phraseology, I was a maker unlike many who generally inhabit these Right-Wing spaces. Remember, again in their parlance, Red States are generally takers not because of the people but because of failed ideology imposed and indoctrinated upon their people.
Egberto Willies: Scott Cone & Victor Howard you are correct. People create things. Because of your sphere and those within, I better give a little about who I am. I went to the University of Texas and graduated with an engineering degree and subsequently worked for oil companies, NASA, and other companies all in five years.
Before I became a full time political activist, I created software that was on the space station. I formed my own software company and created software that tested Boeing electronics. Many oil companies use my software in their pumps and getting their POS data from computer to network.
I had pricing power that determined what I would charge. I was never greedy, and some ridiculed me saying I could have made orders of magnitude more. The reason I didn’t is that I always knew that pricing power is master and those who are not blessed with it, are the ones who ultimately pay it all. When Boeing or Exxon or JPL purchased my software, ultimately, it is the user all the way to the end that foots the bill.
A hoarder of capital is one taking much more than necessary and one that is anathema to paying taxes to normalize said hoarding. The fictional character, Gecko, once said GREED IS GOOD. The reality is that that identifies everything that is wrong with our economic form. The fact is that most people are not greedy. If they were there would be no super-wealthy. You see, the super-wealthy do not create much. They use our economic system to capitalize on the work, intellect, and labor of others. I find it interesting that in Pharisee-tic fashion, it is a tenet supported by many in the Evangelical movement which is one of the several methods used to maintain the con on Americans and with that the rest of the world.
Both Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders would tackle the problem in a similar manner if with different terminologies. But their solutions are mild at best. The wealthy would do well to help them mitigate the aberration that is our economic system. The small number of people benefiting from the system and the large number coerced into fearing its mitigation will eventually flip. What Warren and Sanders want is an ordered redistribution of an ever so small portion of ill-gotten gains. If they are unsuccessful, in the long run, we will lose the country. Too many are too shortsighted without the ability to see through different levels of indirection. And if they are successful in holding the Progressive movement it is an absolute fact that it will be fatal for our country.
This may be hard to understand or to accept, but what has happened is not up for debate. What will happen has historical precedent.
Be well.
I got the reply I expected, regurgitated Right-Wing Fox News talking points that had no basis in reality. It is the reason why it was not all that difficult for Trump to find so many willing to be conned.
Scott Cone: Egberto Willies what would be fatal to the United States would be the implementation of a redistributive, socialist utopia based on the false notion that people are basically not greed. That is not seen in human history and it’s not seen today. People do what is in their self interest to do. Any governmental system that seeks to go against this must do so by force. It never works. Socialism has NEVER worked. It has been tried and failed over and over again. And, yet, the utopian humanists believe they’ll eventually get it right. The only way in which socialism works is by equalizing the poverty and misery in a society. It can never raise everyone to the same level. It can only bring everyone down. And by everyone, of course I exclude the party elites, who will enrich themselves to the detriment of everyone else. So, rather than creating greater economic opportunity, it actually does more to concentrate wrath in the hands of fewer people and punishes those with capital. The resulting economy degenerates to subsistence level, as we see in Venezuela right now. Please don’t make the assertion that what’s being done in Venezuela is not true socialism. It is.
I do not do any more than three iterations in any sub-thread otherwise one is wasting time that is better spent on more productive endeavors.
Egberto Willies: Scott Cone While I’d hope you would have gotten something out of the reply, I had no expectations. I got the talking points I expected. I spent the time to write the prose for the larger audience because I am intent on not leaving well designed indoctrinate-ive posts I come across unanswered. I am done with this thread. Be Well.
Remember to share this. The amount of BS that will be circulating as the Plutocracy realizes that Progressives are really trying to level the ship will grow to the nth degree. We must keep people informed and immune to the misinformation.
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Egberto, your reply to the above was timely and relevant. I noticed how this individual, like others of the same mindset or cookie cut, throw around the term “communist” or “socialism” like paper fly traps – which is a code word for “welfare” and therefore signifying a targeted population or group (‘undesirables’ ). Well, if that the case, “capitalists” can be easily tagged as an “oligarchy.” And, of course a “plutocracy” is a subset of an oligarchy. certainly, this doesn’t benefit the masses. He, therefore, exposes himself in plain sight, This is classic:
“People who have capital don’t steal it or horde it. They get it by creating things, working and then investing in new tools to create more capital. Along the way, they hire others to help them increase more.”
Basically, the capitalists in this context are plantation owners (conglomerates) with stratified servitude (“others to HELP THEM [capitalists]…”) increase production. When you extrapolate his thinking, it follows that the workers (servants) are actually pushing the mass production (hoarding) to the top tier (1% who use methods to insulate the accumulated wealth) while the hired hands (HELP) are leveled into an uneven economic distribution (compete for leftover resources).
By the way, I’m an original man (Black) who holds both a bachelor and masters degree. Meaning I worked HARD to get where I am today. But I’m “lazy”??? HYPOCRITE!
Exactly mu friend.
One glaring foible among the many: RE: The idea that “Government does not make anything, it uses ….”
I singled out this because so many people say it. It may be just a bit of Fox News drool (AKA lying). It should be given only the shortest recognition in any discussion. Otherwise, it takes time away from those who want to discuss honest questions.
Actually, governments make so many things that are so obvious that people take them for granted. Consequently, some people can get sucked in by the fiction. We all know about the “roads-bridges-army-cops” group of government goods and services. However, an orderly society may be the greatest need of the businessman. I doubt if I need to make a long comment to explain that. If it were less than completely true, business would thrive anywhere, whether USA or Somalia.